Giants Flashpoint Focus and Tasty Draft Fits

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
They Around the NFL podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Is the best sports podcast in our hearts.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
That's it from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's Around
the NFL.

Speaker 4 (00:14):
Dan Hands is here with heroes Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Walking on my way into the studio.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
TV screens everywhere less now after the storms took out
half of the electronics in our building a couple months ago,
but walked by a screen and then they had the
drafts scroll, you know, with the various mock drafts from
our experts. In fact, we have an expert coming in
later today in studio.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Tease.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
So the Jets logo and now the Jets on Monday
announced they have they have gone back.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
And it's interesting too when you start to get old.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
And hasn't happened for me yet, but yeah, and you
you realize that everything just repeats, so they now, So
anyway it started their.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Logo is the name of logo that everybody remembers.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Then in the seventies and eighties they had the blocky
jet spont that we remember so well marked with the.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Jet on top.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Sure, then in ninety when Parcels got there in ninety
seven to ninety eight, they went back to name it
then they went to some type of bizarre hybrid during
the gase I call it the gase that are And
now they're back to the seventies and eighties jet with
the So that's what I saw in the scroll and
I was like, that was cool. And then yesterday I

(01:36):
also saw the Jaguars are celebrating their thirtieth anniversary. Wow,
which is that well age of man, and they will
be wearing throwbacks from thirty years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
And I saw it just before we started.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Mark you're mentioning, Yeah, well, the Cleveland Browns, you know,
I guess remember the Browns had the horrible uniforms.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
You they had to wait five years to get out
of them. Like during our Cleveland was like, yeah, that's
all over. I forget it. Where you're from the land.

Speaker 5 (02:00):
All these other teams seem to be able to change
whatever they want, like every couple of years. But Cleveland
made a couple of little tweaks and they went back
to their white face masks, which they had from seventy
five through ninety five right before they moved. So one
of their best eras in the eighties there, especially early
nineties with Belichick. Then again though in ninety nine through
two thousand and five, which was a disaster, but I
think we don't talk about those year. No, the white

(02:22):
face masks literally look better. I think they're going to
maybe adopt like the thinner stripes, and there's little tweaks
that they're bringing up, making even more old ideas.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
Greggie, Yeah, when's the last so the brown that's a
throwback to the Jets had just talked about when's the
last time a team redid their uniforms? And it was
a completely fresh uniform and it was like, Oh, that's
that's cool?

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Or are we just now we're just probably answer eighties?
Like you're right, none are.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Like I remember when the Bucks rebranded in the late nineties,
it was like, oh my god, they just totally everything
feels different now sure enough it was under Dungee.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Well let's think about that. Maybe we're missing one at
pay behind the glass big funk. Maybe you guys, that's.

Speaker 6 (02:59):
That's fast, that's that's life, that's even even art has
these like different cycles. But yes, I always remember when
we were growing up watching like the old NBA clips
of how short Robert Parrish's shorts were in the NBA
and Larry Bird at that time, and thinking like, well,
that's a ridiculous thing that will never happen again, and
it's best completely differ us tennis right now, Like the

(03:21):
shorts are actually shorter than the basketball shorts from the eighties,
and it's coming for all of us. It's it's summer
of thigh and I see, we.

Speaker 5 (03:28):
Love that trend. Thy many of us, all three of
us equally loved that trend.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
I recently rewatched the thirty for thirty Fab five and
that was a big part of their statement that they
were different. It's like, I'm gonna wear clown shorts and
everyone else is wearing the spankys.

Speaker 6 (03:42):
Shout out to the Jaguars fans you mentioning that it's
the thirtieth anniversary. I know you guys don't want to
hear it's. Oh the Browns and Jets.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
We've had.

Speaker 6 (03:49):
It's so hard, like sneaky, a lot of heartbreak. Now
they've act they've never made They were still one of
the only teams that have never made the Super Bowl.
They're thirty years old. That that takes up the vast
majority of our lives here in a weird run that
they've had because they were one of the best teams
in the NFL for their first five seasons and been
mostly stuck in mediacore.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
On your below, just as an asterix, I would note
that the Browns are one of the other few teams
that have.

Speaker 6 (04:12):
No I get it, been around for two I get it.
I just mean in terms of living humans. At this point,
you're a thirty five year old. With the Jags, you're
forty year old. It's been a lot of a lot
of losing.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
And don't forget Greg you especially although you conveniently have
moved this out of your brain. Miles Jack wasn't down.
I was gonna say, was there like a heartbreak moment
for the Jaguars.

Speaker 6 (04:34):
Sure they made three conference championships, you didn't win one.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
Of them, right, But when you basically have clinched a
conference championship win and the officials and perhaps the league
conspire to ensure the Jaguars don't get to go to
the Super Bowl, so the Patriots can go to their
fourteenth Super Bowl, as happened without any.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
That's exactly That's exactly what happened.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
And so Jags fans out there is the greatest what
if in JAG's history. Miles Jack wasn't down twenty seventeen
AFC Championship.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Do you remember that play?

Speaker 6 (05:04):
Of course I remember that play, And because he wasn't,
they had the Patriots on the ropes. That defense was special.
I don't think they would have won the Super Bowl
that year anyways, but that defense was special. And the
second time they lost to the Patriots in the conference
championship because Drew Bledsoe took care of them way back
in nineteen ninety six. Probably their biggest heartbreak moment was

(05:28):
the year they were the one seed and they were
I think were sixteen and two or something and their
division rivals, the Titans, came in there and they stomped them.
And I think the Jags were decent sized favorites in
that game. End absolutely, I knew, don't do this.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
What are you talking about the Jaguars greatest heartbreak? Yeah, great,
twenty to ten.

Speaker 6 (05:46):
I'm just saying that was their best team twenty they
they were a one.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
Seed Jaguars over Patriots thirteen thirty seven to go in
the fourth quarter in Foxborough.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Jack picks up a loose ball.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
He's going into the end zone to make it twenty
seven to ten with thir ten and half minutes to play.
Instead they wave it off and then the Patriot's gone
to win.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, I didn't want the Jaguard to beat that.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
Here's the upsow you shouldn't have done is blow a
two score lead there in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
One upset together the AFC title game that Jaguars and
points the play caller for the Jaguars, Nathaniel Hackett.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
There he is.

Speaker 5 (06:21):
I don't know what he's gonna learned since, but uh,
he had quite a nice run with the Jaguars.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Staniel Hackett.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think he actually that really helped his career because
he was able to say that, well, I made something
out of Blake Portles.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Every now and then, I mean bade two seasons later.

Speaker 6 (06:34):
Every now and then, I feel like, oh, we're underserving
certain fan bases. Some teams get talked about more than others.
We just gave a great look back on the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
Right, we lost most of our listeners, but that's now,
it's a fascinating Here was a heartbreaking, crescendoing, rough moment
for you Jaguars fans.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Let's spend twelve minutes on it.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
Another underserved fan base because of the scard in my left,
the New York Giants.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
We're gonna dive deep a little.

Speaker 6 (06:58):
Bit of that is the our listeners, Please please tell
us if you disagree with that.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Because or tell us if you agree.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
Yeah, because I think if you if you just did
a word cloud of all the teams that we've talked
about in the history of this podcast, and even in
the last five years, Giants are easily top ten. Okay,
I would go top top six. Yeah, but you're typically
because you guys love the Giants, but you're.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Shading negative on them.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
I think we're fans going Okay, most negat said word
cloud is Greg trying to assassinate the franchise's character or
disregard them, or disparage them or discredit them, and then
us as journalists reading to tell the other side of
the story.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Balance. This is a major pivot.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Point in the current structure of Giants history, so we
might need a certain segment to help us out unpack
it all with a special guest, And I did mention
a special guest coming up. He is a draft expert.
He has been with this company for many years. He's
a good guy all around.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Chat ruder.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, joining us breaking down his last mock draft. But
before that's some news.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, also with thank god.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Man, listen, I'm very happy for Travis kelcey and and
he's currently dating the most famous woman in the world,
beautiful talented woman, and he's a major star as a

(08:28):
as a result. In fact, he's about to host a
new show on Amazon Prime, Are You Smarter Than a Celebrity?
Which is kind of funny because some of his old tweets,
But that's that's separate, that's what makes them a good Yeah, yeah,
but I do. I do love me some pre Taylor Travis.
And that was from the AFC title game a previous
season against the Bengals when yeah, nobody, nobody, uh the

(08:53):
Chiefs could never beat a Joe Burrow team. Well they
did in that game. I'm looking forward to Joe Burrow
being back on the scene this year. If you want
to talk talk yoh poop, see that that's pre Taylor Travis.
It's got a little bit more of that the white
boy flow, and he's you know.

Speaker 5 (09:07):
Well and when they say that we are the people's
podcast in their hearts, like we literally lost a contest
for best sports podcast to Kelsey's podcast. So but we're
able to still see him as at fair and balance.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
And honor to be nominated Mark just an honor, well true,
just an honor. All right, let's start with a little
bit of.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Draft intrigue, because the Washington commanders, picking number two in
the draft, have obviously interest in a quarterback, and the
commanders are doing everything they can to be ready for
next Thursday's big decision. And on Wednesday they welcome in

(09:48):
LSU quarterback Jade and Daniels, North Carolina quarterback Drake May,
Michigan quarterback JJ McCarthy, Washington quarterback Michael Pennix, all visiting
the facility tonight and tomorrow. So this was last night
and today according to Burt Breer. So that's called due diligence.
That feels us a little bit. What do we that
feels a little much to pack him in all like that,

(10:10):
But who knows how these schedules work. The commanders if there,
if you ever wanted to wager something, because I know
that's something people do. Now the commander is taking a
quarterback and number two is off the board, like you
couldn't I don't think you could even do that if
you wanted to because it's so obvious it's gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
It's just who's it going to be.

Speaker 6 (10:27):
It's going to be Jaden Daniels according to the betting
markets that you mentioned, and according to Adam Schefter, who
does this thing every draft season. I've noticed where he
kind of tells you what the picks are going to be,
but he doesn't report him. But he'll do something like
go on a Commander's fan podcast this week or last

(10:49):
and say like, yeah, I think you can pretty much
order your Daniel's jerseason.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
It's like, huh, that's interesting, and you look.

Speaker 6 (10:55):
At what he's tweeted out and he's he he couches
it all as if like you're not allowed to report this,
but you kind of know it, and then he ends
up getting it right. I found with these these high
level ones and he Adam Scheft shift and he's been
on the Daniels front. So that's part of the reason
why I wanted to bring this up was to me,
that is significant that he's become kind of the heavy

(11:17):
favorite to go to Washington, which you know, as a
Patriots fan, I'm thrilled about because I'd love to get
Drake May in the third spot. But I also just
imagine what is it like in the facility when all
these four quarterbacks are Are they there at the same time?
I don't really know. Are they all going out to
dinner at the same time? That is usually how it goes.
That is a I would love to have a camera
on that and just see see the dynamic.

Speaker 5 (11:35):
I would see because outside of the schefter nugget there,
like Washington's done a nice job of not playing their
hands here, and I feel like this is kind of
like the next version of that, Like, hey, we're bringing
them all in.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
But if even Pennix, who like in theory they would
have to trade back, you would think if they took
it right.

Speaker 5 (11:51):
If it is Daniels, then the only thing this does
for me that's intriguing is like if Daniels is more
unlikable or less impressive with the other three guys, and
like someone could somehow supersed him. I don't think that's
gonna happen, But I find it weird to have all
four Like would you want to pick a life partner
or a spouse and have four people in the same
room competing for it? Maybe reality, but maybe, But I

(12:14):
think that's sort of like fugazy on some level. Like
also with quarterbacks, don't you want to take him into
a room isolated and like show us how you do
this and that you know, like really learn who they
are or is it like group think and dinners?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
We'll see.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
I like that, we're not even Caleb. Doesn't you have
to go down there? Well that and that's thankful. I mean,
he can probably get a free dinner out of it
if you wanted to. But even the commanders are like, uh,
we're you know, could minderstand what's happening there? In other news,
by the way, mentioned Patrick Mahomes. He has had obviously
an all time start to his career. He's won three

(12:47):
Super Bowls, He's won through three Super Bowl MVPs. For
each of those games, he's won two NFL MVPs. He
is only twenty eight years old, and that has led
to a lot of talk.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Everybody wants to talk all the.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Time about who's the goat, And it was Joe Montana,
and then it was maybe Peyton Manning and then Tom
Brady and based on success and statistically also, I mean
I still have to say it's Tom Brady. But Patrick Mahons'
the start is all time and he has a good
perspective on it. And here's a quote because he was
named one of the world's most Influential People of twenty

(13:21):
twenty four by Time magazine, which is still hanging in there.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Time still think.

Speaker 6 (13:26):
The only time I hear about it is when it's
the Time Top one hundred. They have a little party.
Inevitably it's someone in sports or someone I follow on Twitter,
and they're at the top the Time one hundred party,
So they got enough juice that they get them to
show up to the party.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
My senior year of college, as a big U two
fan who was obsessed, especially at that age, Bono was
on the cover of like the May two thousand and
two issue and it's like a big picture of a
big serious Bono face of the glasses holding up in
a leather jacket with the American flag inside, and then
the headline is Ken Bono Save the World.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
And I was like, Okay, I'm putting on the door
of my dorm for rest.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
What the answer was, No, he did actually saved the
On's why you're still here, So all right, well that is.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
News to me.

Speaker 5 (14:06):
You're breaking that news I feel like we're in decline
on some level, but he.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Did his best anyway. So here's what he had to say.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
I've had at least one of the top three starts
to a career.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
I'll put it that way.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
I love that perspective it is, but it's also that's
a little humble because he's had the best start. I
don't know how can when you factor in not just
a team success but also individual success. I don't think
anyone touches him.

Speaker 6 (14:31):
I just appreciate that he is framing it in a
way that is more intelligent to me than how all
the sports talk yakers are talking about it, because you
can only compare, Okay, what's he done his first six years.
It's stupid to compare him to people who had an
entire career. It's just unfair and it's stupid. But he's saying,
I've had one of the top three starts, and he's
done the homework. He mentioned specifically Brady, who individually just

(14:54):
wasn't doesn't measure close to that level.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
But I get it.

Speaker 6 (14:56):
He had two Super Bowl MVPs and three titles. So
I think that's why Mahomes is thinking, just hate titles. Uh, Montana,
who had a very strong start to his career at
MVP in there has a title in there, uh and
some MVP votes and he throws in Marina and Marino
to me is the only one that you could say
would be close to the same level individually, because you

(15:18):
look at him and he was either the MVP or
AP first team quarterback his first four years, so he
was in terms of just ranking your quarterbacks, and I
think Mahomes has always been in the top five, usually
the top three, off in the top one like, and
he's been that throughout. The only one that could even

(15:39):
compare would maybe be Marino in the you know, the
other one that popped in my mind and I went
to check the AP.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Votes Sam Darnold j M.

Speaker 6 (15:46):
Because really his people basically didn't have a good career
after his first five years. But in the first five
years of his career, he was one of, if not
the best quarterback in the league for about five years.

Speaker 5 (15:57):
I'd push back on Montana. He did crossed twenty touchdowns
until his fifth season. I know it's a different time,
but sure he didn't. He was only eighteen and fifteen.
Over his first four seasons, he barely played over his
first two seasons, and then year three came and he
won the super Bowl in all that business, top.

Speaker 6 (16:13):
Five MVP twice in his first six seasons. But you're right,
it's not like Mahomes.

Speaker 5 (16:17):
I mean, I think Mahomes is, but he's correct to
point to point back in history in like Marino was
an outlier.

Speaker 6 (16:23):
He's looking at it off.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
No, I like that, and Marino is the first one
I thought of that would be a little off the
beaten path. He hit the ground running as a super
duper star and went to the super Bowl in his
second season when he won MVP, and he never got
over the hump.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
So sounds like it's harder.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
To do like what the Chiefs and Mahomes have done
in this era than back when three or four teams
dominated the NFL for like long stretches a ton of time.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Right, Marina, It is crazy, man.

Speaker 6 (16:49):
He led the league in yards four out of his
first six years, when you know, had that great first
season where he's but he didn't start the whole season
where he was thirty in MVP. He in a season
he didn't start the whole season. Then he won MVP.
Then he was the first team All Pro and then
he was third in MVP. That is just crazy. And
he is got out to the Dolphins Stans. You always

(17:10):
stick up for him because that is about that.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
And you heard me giving him love too, by the way,
throwing for five thousand yards and nearly fifty touchdowns in
nineteen eighty four total outlaws.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Absolutely right, Sane.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
I'd love to see who the difference between first and
second place that year, Marino of the mid eighties. And
you're not going to like this and some of your people, Greg,
He's what you wanted justin Herbert to be in his
first four years, but he hasn't quite gotten there, like, oh,
he's that specially he's that guy.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
He's not that guy. That's that guy. He's that guy.

Speaker 6 (17:42):
I would never put him in that category.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
But I think that the way the talk around her,
I don't think.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
I don't think that Herbert chatter is as loud right
now as it was even last off season.

Speaker 6 (17:52):
I mean I would have different, I would have liked that.
I mean, he hasn't even been close to Mahomes, no
one has. But yeah, it's not even a not even
a comp all right.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
In other news, here's a guy who used to be
talked about as a top quarterback, but not so much
in recent seasons. Deshaun Watson, who is entering his third
season with the Rounds.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
He suspended the first one, right, been there two years.
Two years, Okay, I mean vaguely.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
He's coming off a season ending right shoulder injury that
was very serious.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
The underwent surgery November to.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Repair what was a displaced fractured to the glenoyd in
his throwing shoulder. His throwing program is moving along, he
said Tuesday that everything is in full motion. Everything is fluid,
and motion is really good. The velocity and the strength
are really good. So everything progressing. Although it's not sure
mark yet whether he'll be cleared for OTAs, so physically

(18:49):
he's not all there. Still absolutely blows my mind that
it's not Joe Flacco who's there to fill in. If
this needs to take a little longer, it would be
Jameis Winston, but Watson is on tree, it seems for
twenty twenty four.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
There's just intense pressure on this working out and we're
two plus years into it and taking a look at
his QBR from twenty two to twenty three, forty point
four and forty two point nine, which are a full
twenty points lower than any other season he played in
the league. He's not been the same player. Durability has
been an issue too. It's like, if you're going to
go make the trade for someone that you did for

(19:25):
Deshaun Watson, you want to know he's going to be there, present, NonStop.
He wasn't present the first year for off the Field Antics,
and he wasn't president last year because his body didn't
hold up. And in year three, if you don't get
a glowing version of this quarterback like it already is
the worst quarterback trade that we can think of in
the past of this century, and it has a chance
to become a full bloom disaster. And it's crazy for

(19:48):
me to think that Kevin Stefanski, who has won two
Coach of the Year awards, which is atypical for a
coach that's barely won a playoff game, like he.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Was actually in his basement when they won THEMA that's
the cret.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
Yes, I mean he's done a good job, especially when
Watson's not been in there. He's done a good job coaching,
in fact better I think, But the pressure on him
and Andrew Berry and everyone else is immense because the
quarterback's not going anywhere because of the money attached to him.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
This maybe this makes you feel better out of nowhere.
I had a vision yesterday that Watson. I assume within
this vision, although it didn't go into this realm, Watson
gets hurt again.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
That the Browns pick up.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
The phone and they call the Colts, who are happy
with Anthony Richardson's progress and he's healthy, and they go
and they get him back, get flex, Well you got
you got the joker Winston in there, But now let's
get an adult in here, Flacco while Watson uh Idols
waste time back in ir like.

Speaker 5 (20:41):
If that happened in week State Week twelve, could Flaco
win comeback Player of the Year again?

Speaker 3 (20:46):
I would love it? It would be amazing.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
Can we cut this for when this inevitably happens in
October late October, right around Hollowey.

Speaker 6 (20:52):
If Winston comes in there and out plays him, that'll
be like the seventh different Stefanski quarterback that that's done.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
That just see how many can do it at this point?

Speaker 6 (20:59):
Why the most note newsworthy things. I'd love to see it.
I think he'd be a fun fit with Watson you.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Have fun, you won't win a lot of games.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
But Stefanski h Watson, you know, he might not be
fully ready until training camp. Wasn't worried about that. He
did kind of you know thing that annoyed me a
little bit. He mentions like, hey, I might have actually
hurt my shoulder in week three until he's kind of
throwing out these and he did hurt his shoulder in
week three, but he might have had the injury that
ended up requiring surgery, he said in week three, and

(21:30):
he was playing through it, so kind of throwing that
out there, which I didn't love. But part the only
one of the reasons I put this on there is
I learned last week and I meant to mention it
here that Deshaun Watson has a podcast and Kevin Stefanski
was a meant a guest of this post. Yeah, and
I was like.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Wait, what what is the Shawn Watson talking about on
his podcast?

Speaker 6 (21:51):
Okay, Like I would love to I should go listen
to probably now it's called QB Unplugged. They've got some
major issues. I went and checked their feed and it's
it's very inconsistent, but it says there's been quite a
number of episodes, I think thirteen episodes, except it just
in the podcast feed. It skips from episode seven to

(22:12):
thirteen with no mention, but many months in between. And
the Stefanski one, which is up on YouTube, is not
in that feed. Because I was curious. I actually was thinking, hey,
maybe I'll listen to us Stefanski Watson podcasts, but it's
not in the feed. So they've got some tech issues.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
Are you sure that? Like his whole life skipped about
like five.

Speaker 6 (22:29):
Years now, I mean this one. Plus they were during
the season last year, so I guess I'm I'm just
saying the podcast seems to be going as well as
as the career in with the Browns we have.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
There are many podcasts featuring current and former NFL players
that are worth your while. But when you hear things
like Deshaun Watson has a podcast, we have saturated the market.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Players. Let's let's start.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
You know, the union maybe should get involved in be like, hey, guys,
we're not letting you all do podcasts right because it's
annoying to everyone. We're gonna knock it down now going forward,
there are only seventy player podcasts, and we will let
you know who you if you're on that list.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
I mean it's fair, it's countercultural to produce a podcast
that's not available, like I think that that's the next level.

Speaker 6 (23:13):
I guess it's on YouTube, so maybe it's more more
that I don't know.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
All right, let's take a break and we'll now drill
in when we come back on one of the teams
that are at the center of.

Speaker 7 (23:30):
Next Thursday's Realm one.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Oh my goodness, at on after Dark.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
This is the one of the most important segments in
the show's history because it is a segment that, first
of all, is a phenomenon. I mean, people go nuts
about it, but it's also it's what separates us from
the Pact because we see things, we see storylines, we
see the future of the league in the way that
very few people can. And and Mark and I are

(24:11):
the founders and co creators. Greg, you've come on and
really made a lot of advances. And what's it Greg's role.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
With the it was like production assistant to some degree.
But I will say our most recent one introduced like
the last you know, two or three guests, well I'd
say one, but but yes, you had a trench in
Eagles episode that I think in the eyes of the listener,
raised Greg's status within this world. Right, Well, it doesn't
have to work on the other outside of.

Speaker 6 (24:38):
The The key is we have like a patriots, like
humble nature to us, not trying to take you know, Louis.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Was a little presumptive there, all right.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Anyway, hit hit it again, hit it again, because we
now welcome in our guest. And I'm sorry that he
had to listen to that internal conversation in bickering and
he's probably thinking, what the hell are they talking about?
That doesn't matter. This is the beat man for the record.
He is a voice that has covered this team, the

(25:08):
New York Giants we were about to talk about, since
twenty eleven.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
This is Art Stapleton. Welcome to around the Outcock.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
What's up, fellas, Thanks for having me, appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Great to have you Art, And by the way, I
want to say it's good to have art.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Where are you from?

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Originally North Jersey, born and raised and live in New
York now, but you know New York, New Jersey.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Bargen County, Guy, Bergen County Guy.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
So I grew up in Rockland County and I would
drive from Pearl River over the border to Monfale to
get cheaper gas. And I just want to say, like
I was listening to your podcast, Art getting ready for
this segment today, the All In podcast and All In
with Art Stapleton got to get the name in there.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
I like that, and it's just like God, it's nice
to hear someone that it sounds like me, you know.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
I like someone that said as Cawra got married, it's
it's finally, it's good to have a North Jersey Tri
state area.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Guys that were partly.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
Thank you reportedly came from a coaltown. Dan has told
us for we have not we you know, I grew
up about twenty miles from Damn, but you grew up
in a coletown, according to his own reporting.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, that's I think everyone knows Pearl River is a coltown,
Art right.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, well you know Pearl River now we know it
as you know, just another town that's near the Pala
Stage Mall, very much just like my town. Rochelle Park
is right near Parmise and we live near the Garden
State Plaza.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
And that's that's the area.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Really all you're about.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah, the summer of two thousand, many memories of the
TGI Fridays where I was a server went by Danny.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
All right, all right enough, let's focus. I apologize.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
This flashpoint focus series is all about getting ahead of
the story and the Giants are a fascinating study here
because they.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Have the sixth pick. And let's start where we got
to start at the quarterback?

Speaker 4 (26:57):
All right, Like, so you would say that John and
ownership is not going to stand in the way if
this team has a quarterback that they love with Daniel Jones,
how put the odds on a percentage chance they end
up coming out around one with a quarterback in your mind.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Well, if they were sitting at three, i'd say ninety
eight point, you know, nine nine nine nine nine percent.
But they're not. So a lot of their quarterback quest,
I think is going to be dependent on what the
teams ahead of them do in that situation. And if
New England, Arizona or the Chargers want to move, I

(27:37):
think they'll look to move. You know, John Marat told
a story at the owners meetings, and I'll try to
keep it as concise as possible, But was just the
idea back in two thousand and four when his father
Wellington had to be convinced that it was time to
move on from Kerry Collins and draft a quarterback and
make a trade up. And Ernie A. Corsi, the general

(27:59):
manager at the time, and Tom Cofflin, the first year
head coach at the time, loved Eli Manning and they
wanted to make a trade up. And John Marra recalled
having to convince his dad, look, we know you love
Kerry Collins, but we have to make a move. And
they ended up making that trade. They let Kerry Collins go,
Kurt Warner came in, and we all know, you know

(28:20):
NFL and Giants' history, what happened, you know that season,
and Kurt ended up getting benched with a winning team.
But I think John mara is kind of in the
position of his father from that year, and he needs
to be convinced that, you know, the guy he loves,
Daniel Jones, the guy he said a couple of years
ago that you know they've done everything to screw him up. Well,

(28:42):
it gets to a point where as badly as a
guy may have been screwed up, you just have to
move on. And that's where the Giants are right now.

Speaker 6 (28:50):
To follow up on that, who do you think like
in terms of pie of is making these decisions, is
really calling the shots, because to me, it's in awkward situation.
Joe Shane didn't draft Daniel Jones. And how desperate do
you think Joe Shane is that their GM and Brian
Dabele is obviously involved in offensive coach And how much

(29:12):
does the Jones negotiation last year? And you know, play
into it because I look at it and it's not
like they have extra draft picks or anything. And it's
not like they have a roster that is, you know,
has a lot of talent at every position. They have
a lot of needs. Like how much do you think
Joe Shane and if he's making the decision is willing

(29:32):
to give up future resources for a team that has
a lot of holes.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
It's a great point, Greg, And I just think that
from Shane's perspective. And one thing you know that I've
gotten to learn and I'm still getting to learn. I mean,
we've been through general managers and coaches here covering the Giants.
I feel like I'm on my seventeenth head coach and
fifteenth general manager. But Shane believes in the process. You know,
he believes that you know, if he gets his process, right,

(30:00):
He'll deal with the results now. The results have been
hot and cold since he's gotten here going into year three.
But that contract, I don't believe that that contract or
Daniel Jones's extension was forced on Joe Shane. I think
you know, he made the call as well, you know,
so he has to own the idea that if it's
time to move on from Daniel Jones, he just made
a different decision last year. But the reality is that

(30:23):
they did structure the contract. Now they're not out clean
next year with Jones, but they certainly haven't out to
the point where I think it's twenty two million dollars
in dead money. You know, we can talk about the
cap and whether it's valid. I think this is Jones.
This is a call for Shane to make. And they
know what it was like to be up in Buffalo,

(30:44):
and they know they're in the top ten, and if
they're in the top ten next year, in a year after,
they might be looking for jobs. And I'm not saying
that he's going to make a pick based on keeping
his job, but he's got to make a call now.
If what they leave is a great quarterback class, if
they have an opportunity to get one of their guys.

(31:05):
They've got to pull the trigger and then see what
happens after that.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
And you know, I mean, from where we stand now,
next year's QB class is you know, considered lesser by
by a bunch. And if you're Brian Dabele and Shane's like,
will you even be here next draft season?

Speaker 3 (31:20):
If you falter this year? That things go south.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
I looked at your mock and it was an interesting
one because you got all the wide receivers going up top,
like the Cardinals stay home, take Neighbors, the Chargers take Odonze,
then the Giants at six take Drake May and that
that would be a surprise if all that occurred, I
think is I kept keep thinking one of these teams
is going to trade down. But let's say it was
a chance to take one of the big wideouts or
JJ McCarthy like, do you think the Giants are cool

(31:45):
with the top four I'd say the top second through
fourth quarterback whoever it is, or is it like one
of the they let they want to see one of them,
particularly fault on And do you have information on like
who who they think fits their system the most?

Speaker 4 (31:58):
Which guy currently and why Washington right now? Right commanders
do they like the most?

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well, I think you know, Mark, it's a great point.
I mean it's all a guessing game, right. I mean
we're trying to be educated. You try to make calls,
you try to know what teams are thinking. I think
Shane has done a great job of keeping everybody guessing.
You know, there are thirty visits. They've brought in May
and McCarthy and they had workouts with those guys, and
then they brought in Daniels and they were on campus

(32:24):
with Pennix and you know, they even had Caleb back
at the combine when you know, just you know, maybe
there was that one percent that he wasn't going to Chicago. Uh,
they've had all the wide receivers in. I think the
McCarthy thing is, you know, it's about traits, right, It's
about what you can't see. It's about a leap of
faith that everyone's saying. You know, some coaches will see

(32:47):
I can turn this guy into something special.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
That sounds mac jonesy.

Speaker 6 (32:51):
By the way, now that sounds Daniel Jonesy. I mean,
because that was a guy who has got like a
consensus second quarterback in that class, but they thought they
could see something others did.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
It's true, you know what, but I would say that
you trust Pat Shermer. Pat Shermer got one year out
of Daniel Jones. It turns out to be, you know,
Daniel Jones's high point really set up his rest of
his career with the Giants until that playoff run. But
look that the cornerstone of this of this front office.

(33:22):
The two guys are Shannon Dable come from Buffalo and
they went through they lived the Josh Allen experience. And
it's a lot easier now to look at it and say, oh,
well he was their guy. He was their guy, but
it wasn't the popular guy. And I really think that
they trust Dabele and to an extent, Kafka and Shay Tierney,

(33:45):
who's gotten a bump now as the quarterbacks coach, that
they can bring in a guy. Look what they did
with Tommy DeVito last year. If we get a guy
in that we believe in, we could turn him up
and turn a JJ McCarthy or Drake May into the
best quarterback in this in this draft. I don't know
if they can, but I think that that's kind of
some of the insight that I've gotten from the Giants

(34:07):
and that you know, just because we think JJ McCarthy
has the potential of being the number two guy in
this class, is not going to shy. We're not going
to shy away from taking him.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
And you know, coincidentally this morning, again it speaks to
and art apologies the forward thinking nature of this segment.
Flash point focused naturally that NFL Network was airing Super
Bowl forty six this morning between the Giants and Patriots.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
A second and eleven.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
Welker, you got to pull an in bro four minutes
to play Greggy one time out for the Giants and
pats up too, leaving that clock down. There's going to
be a minute left on the clock and pats up
five at the very least.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
And as it makes that.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
Catch, as g Justelle said, you know, my husband, my
ex husband at this point like can't throw the ball, can't.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Throw the ball ahead and catch it.

Speaker 6 (34:53):
I think the take that I've said the most on
this podcast, that you've just said you don't believe me
for some reason, is that that's easily the most painful
in Patriots history, easily outweighs the other.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
The other time, A whole conversation, we digress, yes, and
then the turkey shot to beat all turkey shots from
Eli to Mannaham.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Let's pause real quick. We'll be right back with Art
Stableton on the Giants.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
We're back. Can we fly up arts? Tweet this morning?
This is the type of production we have here.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Art.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
You you thought of something, you fly it up, and
then we have it art stabled in Holy hell, this
is going to be the craziest New York Giants draft
on days one and two that I think I will
have covered on the beat.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
The mood swings will be epic. I got engagement with
this tweet.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah at pop Yeah, Art's respected, he goes back a
long way. The team and the fan base trust him,
and I want to ask the question mood swings. That's
a good way to get into it because listen, as
a jets Van Art like I struggle with the knowledge
that the The Giants are a Tiffany franchise and they're
led by ownership that you can trust, that know how

(35:56):
to handle situations. Overall, However, I think it's fair to
say that since the turkey shot to Manningham and a
mod Bradshaw falling into the end zone, and then four
days later coming out to Culver City and me interviewing
him and being very clear that a mod Bradshaw had
not slept or stopped partying since that game.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
I digress once more. But since then, there's been a
lot of nothing.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
And I know the way Daniel Jones closed two years
ago and then they beat a bad Vikings team in
the playoffs and all that, that kind of satiated the
fan base a little bit.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
But ownership, like, where is the patients level?

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Where where do you get in terms of internally where
the Giants are? Because it has been now a pretty
cold period, especially for a team that's really had a
fair amount of success in the past thirty forty years.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, I think, you know, the impatients really went through
the last three head coaching regimes. I mean, this is
the fourth head coach since Tom Koughlin left the franchise
in twenty fifteen. You know, it wasn't that long ago, right,
I mean it seems like it. But you know, I
just think that ownership believes in this front office. I

(37:02):
really do think that, and I do think that the
Giants want to get back to the point where they're
not changing everything every two three years. You know that
being said, it does come down to the results and
if they completely flop again this year, and you know,
we saw all this talk a couple months ago, the
idea of what if, what if Bill Belichick is on

(37:25):
the market, would the Giants blow out this regime and
bring Bill back home? And right now, I think it's ridiculous,
but I've seen ridiculous covering this team since twenty fifteen,
So you know, look, there's pressure, what level of pressure.
I don't think the ownership is looking to get guys

(37:47):
out of here. I think John Marra believes in Joe Shane.
He likes Joe Shane the general manager, being the front
man of his organization. I think they like Brian Dable.
I think they don't believe that last year the team
quit on him. You know, ultimately it matters when you
move down the line. I mean, guys don't get into

(38:08):
Canton because their teams didn't quit on them. They get
into Canton because they won. And I think that's kind
of where they're at. So the hot seat, the seats
are as hot as what they make them. And this year,
I don't believe ownership is looking to make changes at
the end of the season. But they weren't looking to
get rid of Joe Judge three days before the end
of the Joe Judge season. But because they had to

(38:30):
look for a general manager the way Judge became toxic
in a sense, they had to get rid of them.
You know, I don't believe they went into twenty seventeen
looking to get rid of Ben mcindo, but the team
imploded locker He lost the locker room, and they had
no choice but to blow everybody out. So we'll see.
But I think ownership is confident that Shane's history and

(38:53):
what he's shown to this point and how he'll grow
as a front office executive will turn this team in
the right direction. How quickly that happens, we'll just have
to wait and see.

Speaker 5 (39:04):
When do you think the last time that John Mara
and Bill Belichick spoke on the phone, When did that occur?

Speaker 4 (39:11):
And also, like you said, you right now see it
as ridiculous. I'm curious, like why you see it that way?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
What Belichick is real?

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Returning returning the idea of it.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
I think I think the idea that everybody watched him
in New England and saw how that went downhill. I mean,
you know what would Bill be willing to do? Would
be would Bill be willing to come in and you know,
work with Joe Shane in a front office, or would
he have to pick his handpick guy. Or would Bill
want to be the GM and be the head coach

(39:41):
because that failed? Or would Bill just want to coach
the team. There's there's different levels of a return of
Bill Belichick. As far as the phone calls from John
Mahra and Bill Belichick, I'm guessing they kind of laid
low after the whole Brian Flores, Brian Dable, wrong, Brian
Texics Hi aim from Bill Belichick to Brian Flores. But

(40:03):
I could tell you, look, Belichick's heart will there will
always be a piece of his heart with the Giants,
and there will always be a piece of the Giants
with Bill Belichick. I don't believe that going into you know,
the draft, that John mara is sitting there saying, you
know what, if this fails, I'm bringing Bill back. But
in a couple of months, if things really don't go

(40:25):
the way they expected it to go, and Bill places
a call with his intermediaries, I can't tell you that
that's not going to happen. We're talking about the greatest
coach in NFL history, and there's a piece of that.
I think that the Giants would it would appeal to ownership,
but not many people other than John Marra are in
that organization left from when Belichick was the defensive coordinator

(40:49):
with Parcels as well. You know, Belichick is as much
the guy who lost the two Lombardies that are sitting
in the lobby of the facility that he is the
defensive court to help deliver the first two Lombardies. So
that's kind of the way the Giants are. It really
does come down to John Marra and Steve Tish to
an extent, who is the co owner. He has a

(41:10):
relationship with Bill Belichick as well.

Speaker 6 (41:12):
Yeah, there was a reporting on ESPN. We might hit
this a little more tomorrow about Belichick, but that yeah,
he kind of had an eye on all these NFC
East teams, essentially the Giants, Eagles, Washington that next year,
and that he was willing in Atlanta to not be
in charge of personnel, which was an interesting nugget if
that was true. He's willing to work with with their

(41:32):
GM and he he still didn't get that job here
last one for me at least art is just like
if there are a lot of different scenarios, just they
have so many needs, Like do you think if there's
two good like number one wide receivers available at six
in the top three quarterbacks are gone and I'm including
may to me, you know, is the most Josh Allen

(41:55):
like and maybe has the highest ceiling other than capable.
And to say there are gone, you know when when
you look at this raster and what they think their
their needs are, like, how do you think they'll they'll evaluate,
you know, having the like can they feel like they
leave this draft? I guess is my larger question without
a quarterback if they just don't think the value is
there at six versus like forcing it, like like you

(42:16):
could argue they did with with Jones at the same
position five years ago.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I completely get the sentiment, and I agree with you.
You can't just look at this draft and say we
have six picks, we have to get a quarterback with
one of them. And what does that mean? You know,
you you've got coaches here. You know you made the
call last year to have Daniel Jones here. You have
Drew Locke here, You have an undrafted guy in Devedo
who you know, at this point, you know, it was

(42:44):
much much more of a fan favorite than he was
a future you know, solution at quarterback. You know, look,
I think that's why they've done the homework. You know,
give credit to Garifolo and rap report with the you know,
they had visits over the weekend with Bone Nix and
Spencer Rattler. I mean if Dable looks at you know,

(43:04):
Nicks and says, look, I love this kid. We saw
him at the Senior Bowl, he came in here. You know,
I think that a year under under our coaching, that
we can get him to be a you know, a
top fifteen quarterback in this league. You know, maybe they
look to use their early second round pick, maybe we
have to move up a little bit. Maybe they like
Rattler right there in the second round, or even you know,

(43:27):
moving up from their third round pick. I do think
that there are guys. Shane made a comment a couple
of weeks ago Greg that you're gonna get quarterbacks from
all different places in this draft, and it was kind
of interpreted like, you know, we know the top guys,
but we may be looking for guys who might be
developmental guys. You know, they have a guy and Daniel

(43:47):
Jones who money wise on the books. You know, they're
not lying when they say they hope to start the
season with him in week one because they they have
an idea that they want to develop a quarterback a
little bit similar to the way the Giants know for
with Eli. But the reality is it's just going to
have to depend on how their board breaks and how
aggressive they're going to be. They don't have eleven picks,

(44:10):
as you mentioned, they can't just all of a sudden
start throwing picks around and saying, you know what, we
need to get this quarterback. And if they do, they
better be right because if they're not right on the quarterback,
especially if they get rid of assets to get a quarterback,
they're going to be leave themselves short at other positions
and that is only going to hurt them on the

(44:31):
field this year. And do you have ownership buy in, Well,
you know, I believe they do to a point, but
if they go against what ownership wants and ownership says,
you know what, we believe in you. But if it
fails and fails miserably, then you got a problem.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
Art Stableton. Thank you very much, sir, and check out
all of arch Giants coverage the record. They're in North
Jersey North Jersey dot Com. Of course his podcast as
well if you want the late on the Giants all
in with Art Stable to thank you very much, good sir,
and shout out to the Rocklandburg and Alliance.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
You've got it, guys, appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Thanks, thank you.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
There he goes Art Stable and uh, it just didn't
make me think. First of all, they really are. The
mood swings are set up for the Giants because unless
they make an aggressive move up the board, which i
you know, you never know, but they kind of are.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
They have to wait it out and they.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Have to see what is presented in front of them
and it could lead to a new quarterback or.

Speaker 6 (45:33):
Greg Like you said, they could see how they move back,
you know, they could see what the Patriots would take.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
It really feels like that logical.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
Yeah, Giants, Then you're it's the nerves are high because
it's hard to really you know what's happening the first
two picks obviously, but then like how these teams and
it's funny, this is how the draft and this is
how the sau Siege gets made. Your entire organization's future
is kind of hinging on these other teams in front
of you and decisions they make, unless you try to
put it in your hands and move up the board.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
But that's very costly. And on the Belichick thing, Mark.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
That was the first question, Like when I was writing
down my curiosities for well, I just like, I just like,
come on, this makes too much sense.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
I remember A Football Life, and then I just looked
it up real quick. It was actually the series premiere
of A Football Life, the NFL Films NFL Network show,
and it started with a two parter on Belichick, and
it always stuck in my mind when Belichick goes to
old Giants Stadium before they tore it down, and he's

(46:33):
staring at the locker room and he gets wistful and nostalgic,
and he actually gets just emotional, choked up talking about
how important this building was and all the great memories
and what it meant to him to be involved with
those Giants teams, even if his relationship with Bill Parcells
wasn't always so hot, so it would not I would
think he would be very interested in the right situation.

(46:55):
And then then it becomes about the maras and the tishes,
whether they are and again the good thing for Giants fans,
you guys overall like they have strong.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Leadership, like are there reverse gears in their tank?

Speaker 4 (47:06):
Will they get sucked in by this or will they
look at it the way other people seem to be
looking at Belichick as a depreciated asset at this age.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
I think Belichick's Q raating is gonna just continue to
climb towards next offseason. I just do because I think
suddenly you're like, you're gonna have teams that have you know,
Joe Fabets at head coach. It's like, wait a minute,
we could have had or could have Belichick. And like
I you've talked about the Belichick biographies and they're great,
but the Parcels one too, does an incredible job of

(47:32):
describing how the Parcels Belichick relationship came to be. And
I think parcel Or Belichick was one of the most
famous coordinators of that era. Well sometimes coordinators absolutely absolutely,
Like I mean he when he got to Cleveland job,
like you know, right after winning that second Super Bowl
with the Giants, like I was immediately I immediately bought

(47:53):
in and was just fascinated by the concept of who
he could be and what he was, and he did
it in Cleveland, and then it's the team goes. But
it's like Belichick is not be an unattractive option. And
I think if you're a Giants fan, and if you're
the Giants media corps, and Belichick comes back to the
New York Giants, like what else makes more sense?

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Poetically for the National Football League.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
It's a it's a fun little backdrop to this NFC
season because, as our points out, it all comes down
to win losses. Like, I don't care who the quarterback is,
what the scenario is, what happens. If the Giants win
nine games with Brian Dable this year, they're not gonna
fire him like like, but if they win six games,
they might.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
You know.

Speaker 6 (48:27):
It's like that's just how it works. And I think
that's how it's gonna work for the Cowboys, possibly the Eagles,
and the Giants. So it's these three teams, these big
franchises and apparently you know, Belgick's kind of I in
those three teams.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah, Like, well, like football season, all the things that
go with it.

Speaker 6 (48:41):
And don't forget the East coast, and I think Giants
might be might come out of draft day disappointed. We'll see,
but I or they could be flying because the board
fell the right way. I think they're gonna I think
the most likely outcome is what I asked Art about,
which is like, actually, Daniel Jones probably is got to
be their quarterback, and they're going to try to do
as much as they can can. And they've had a
good offseason. They got Brian Burns. He changed the offensive line,

(49:03):
like as much as they can to get high level
talent around Daniel Jones because the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
It just well doesn't fall right for them, you see.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
And the assumption, even if they did get a quarterback,
the assumption Daniel Jones is out of the building.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
No, he's a sunken cost for them.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
And if they choose to go the route of twenty
four twenty years ago, where you had a veteran start
and then a rookie come in, you might see Daniel
Jens and a new guy.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
You know.

Speaker 6 (49:27):
It's kind of sad though, you know what that means.
And it sounds like they're going to take you nowhere.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
You're going somewhere. Yeah, Tommy DeVito will be out of
the building. Oh, I thought you're saying Drew Lock. Yeah,
because they have Lock in the building.

Speaker 6 (49:37):
Yeah, he's guaranteed some money though. Yeah, I don't think
Lock's going anywhere.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
That would be steveto doesn't work on like the Arizona Cardinals.
Like there's a miss that we're not aligned there.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
And as many people have told me, the other thing
to remember about next January when the cycle begins anew
at coaching. Bill Belichick is spending this year learning how
to be a head coach, and once he learns, like
how do you be successful in the NFL, he relearns that,
like his brain is firing off the synapses, everything's working again,
He'll be You know.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
What I like about this is like this is wherey
like hul Cogan macho man, where like after spending a
decade of you kind of annoyed with Belichick and everything
that he had produced, the fruit seed produce, now you're
like backing him unlike anyone else. I know, Well, I
never not I respected the man. I don't doubt that
where this bunts you a lot of it's oh a lot.
He caused you a lot of pain and your showing
a lot.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Of salt being rubbed in like he loved rubbing the
salt into the wounds of Jets fans.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
And why you have that Clemson football over there, I.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
Got it built, that orphanage burned down to the ground.
You can't disprove that, Greg, That's why you're so mad.
You can't disprove that I flew down to the Clemson
area and rebuilt an orphanage.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Well, I'm starting to believe it.

Speaker 6 (50:44):
Literally on the football it says that the conference that
you contributed to, that you have no idea what it was,
was in Los Angeles and is like, you know, the
future billionaires of area summarized.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
But here's the thing. See, it's not that hard. I
think from another angle.

Speaker 5 (51:01):
Dan reached out to Clemson and this, how can I help, said,
put something in oculus on the football. Don't don't let
them know what I actually did, because that don't let
them know.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Also, this last year's thank you football, another one potentially
as if you've stopped working for the Clemson.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
Area, the Orphanage ball is coming. And by the way,
get your hands off there. It's Dabo Sweeney's autograph on it.

Speaker 6 (51:22):
Uh most valuable partner, Dan hands this thank you does
not know you show the camera.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
I don't take that away. Sure, I mean we.

Speaker 6 (51:29):
Got a tight shot out here, we go here, and
uh yeah, I can't read it off the camera, So
I'm going to turn around. It's thank you for aiding
in the professional development of our schother athlete and providing
a life changing career experience during our twenty twenty three
Los Angeles business Week trip. So I don't see orphanage,

(51:49):
I don't see Carolina. I mean, it's amazing to me,
as someone who won this prestigious Most Valuable Partner award
that you don't even know what's freaking stated to it.
And I have the ball, and I'm happy that you
helped the young Clemson students figure out how to take
advantage of workers.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
You're a big man of battle.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
But I'm gonna I didn't actually give my formally my
thank my acceptance speech of the football thank you to Clemson,
thank you to dave O. Sweeney, thank you to the
everyone that you know needed me in a big spot
and I delivered. It says right here, Greg, a life
changing experience. And I've been involved with a.

Speaker 5 (52:32):
Few, so I wouldn't normally bring this up, but I
actually remember the day that the Clemson contingent came to
the newsroom. It was one of those days when I
was in the newsroom early and I actually talked to
three or four of them because they were asking about
television and television production. And then right next to my cubicle,
on my on the right side of my cubic glass walls,
it says Dan HANSI, and I think they meant to

(52:52):
send it to me because I actually.

Speaker 6 (52:58):
Developing news, making news develop A bunch.

Speaker 5 (53:01):
Of them asking about how tell like they were setting
up for an NFL network show and like a bunch
of people.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Oh you deserve a football.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
I'm just saying you do too, no doubt, because of
your other task down in the Clemson area. But I
would like to I'm gonna start my own.

Speaker 6 (53:15):
According to some NFL media sources very close to the situation, uh,
there is reporting that Mark Sessler is the man they
actually meant to give the fag.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Your attempts are my attempts. This is the man who
helps the kids, I believe remembrance. I'm not claiming that
to be the case.

Speaker 5 (53:34):
I'm saying something unusual occurrence.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
The one person who definitely doesn't get or deserve a ball.
Is the guy that's crowing the most about it. So
read into that.

Speaker 6 (53:45):
I don't want to look look at the look at
the performance of the Clemson football team since you spoke
to him.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
Now you're hitting out. This is brand Greg Clemson. You'll
you'll fight back and you've got great leadership at the top.
Let's take a break and when we return. Chad Ruter
on the NFL Draft. All right, welcome back. So we
just spoke with Art Stabled and breaking down the Giants

(54:14):
and a very interesting half. They have next week's draft
where they pick you know, all their different picks or
do they have six or seven picks whatever. But then
there are men like Chad Reuter for NFL Media, has
been with the company since twenty eleven, who when he
drops his final mock draft, it will have every single pick.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
What is it, two hundred and sixty this year? Where
are we at?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
We yeah, two fifty seven.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
Two hundred and fifty seven. That drops on Friday, and
we're gonna get a little sneak preview of it. So Chad,
welcome back to around the NFL. Thank you gentlemen for
having me on. It's a pleasure to be here this
draft class. You've been doing this since two thousand now,
So where are your thoughts on this draft class?

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Where did you give it a grade? The overall class?

Speaker 6 (54:59):
It is.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
B ish. There's some great positions, some not very deep positions,
and it's fun when there's quarterbacks. You know.

Speaker 8 (55:11):
Look, I love offensive lineman. That's my favorite position, and
not just because I'm a big dude. But when we
have part of it, well absolutely. One time I was
at a Packers training camp and Larry Bechtel, their longtime
offensive line coach, saw me on the sideline watching and
he looked at his guys and said, hey, you guys
better do this with because you got guys on the

(55:31):
sidelines there who can step in for you and play,
you know, so like the stands, Yeah, absolutely exactly. But no,
when there's quarterbacks, it's just more fun. And I think
it's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of intrigue,
and so I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 6 (55:45):
You're not messed around with the quarterbacks. The one of
the picks that really stands out. I mean, first of all,
your answer to the Giants question was they trade up
to for it and they take McCarthy. So they trade
up with Arizona and ended up getting McCarthy. But the
thing I wanted to start with was you had Minnesota
City at eleven, didn't get the trade up that they
take bow Nicks, that you would think that there could

(56:07):
be that much appreciation for bo Nicks And the two
most logical teams in my mind would be the Vikings
or the Broncos that that he could go that high.

Speaker 8 (56:19):
Absolutely, if you look at bo Nicks, he is very
much like Kirk Cousins, and if they want that similar
type of guy, he's right there. Although but Kirk Rwsins
was like a fourth round pick. You don't usually take those,
yeah guys that early. But it would be a wild
it would be a wild thing to take a guy
like that. And that's interesting. I remember because we were

(56:40):
when Cousins got picked. I remember going back into the
Culver and we had kind of the debrief from the draft.
Right We're sitting around in a room and people were saying, uh,
why would the why would Washington take Why would Washington
take RG three and then take Kirk Cousins, And people

(57:01):
and I and I said, Hey, Kirk Cousins was second
round value.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
They got him in the fourth round.

Speaker 8 (57:06):
It was a good move and the room went silent, like, I,
you know, just said something about somebody's parents or something.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
So I think, I think you're known to do in fairness. Well, yeah,
look you'll bury a parent. You don't give it.

Speaker 8 (57:18):
You do it once, you do it once, and then
people think you do it all the time.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Right, Yeah.

Speaker 8 (57:21):
So, so he was viewed as a more than a
fourth round pick, and I think, and I think just
the demand for the position Minnesota. Look, Sam Donald really
solid player. They cannot just roll out general. So I
think you have put in Sam Donald and a guy
like Nicks, and you know they work together and get

(57:42):
it done.

Speaker 5 (57:43):
I think the Chargers fans would come out of this
process absolutely thrilled if what you suggest happens happens, because
they have a Marvin Harrison falling to them and all
this business like, oh, the Chargers won't draft a wide
receiver because they are gonna only have like two know
that that would be amazing. It's a need and it's
also the best player in the draft argue. But then

(58:05):
I love this too because I kind of just love
organic fits where you love no matter what you think
of the player is gonna be maximized where he goes.
And Blake Koram, Michigan's running back going to the Chargers
to Harbaugh in round two, I think that is like
I love draft things like that, and I even I
think on the show we talked about like stuff we
wanted to see happen. I had that too, And so

(58:26):
is do you think that Harbaugh is like, no matter what,
willing to go do that with the second round?

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Is he hoping that he just falls to him?

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah? Oh, I would think so.

Speaker 8 (58:32):
And you know he may not a lot of people
don't have Blake Koram as a top forty pick and
five eight. I understand that, but you know the Chiefs
took Cech at the end of the first round, also
another five eight guy. I didn't like that pick. But
I love Quorum as a as a player. He does
everything pass protection like he doesn't pass protect like a

(58:53):
guy who's five eight, I mean, and he does everything,
and coming off the knee injury a year ago, he
wasn't even his.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Most explosive self.

Speaker 8 (59:00):
And we've seen guys really turn it on after that year,
so I think he'll be even more explosive than he
was this year in the NFL. If everything goes right,
and I think Harball, you know, it was so effusive
his praise of JJ McCarthy and and I think he's
gonna feel the same book Quorum, And honestly like, if

(59:20):
he doesn't pick Korum, he could end up going all
the way down to the Ravens to play for John
Harbaugh at the end of the second round. So those
are the kind of the two spots for Quorum.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
Sometimes we in this ramp up to the draft, start
to fall in love with an idea or a thought
and then it turns it turns very surfacy when you
look back, Oh, it didn't play out that a way
at all, And that's what everyone seems to be doing
with Oh, Harbor will definitely, I'm talking about Jim. We'll
take an offensive lineman because he loves his dogs and
he loves to run. But as you point out, going
to get a playmaker and potentially a truly special one

(59:51):
like Harrison to stretch the field. I mean that helps
the running game as well, so that that shicks out
exact way exactly right.

Speaker 8 (59:59):
And and don't forget that Harbaugh had to sit there
and watch Marvin Harrison. I don't you know, but yeah,
I mean he had some pretty good games, and I
think he knows the kind of special player he'll be getting.

Speaker 6 (01:00:11):
I saw you put Neighbors at thirteen, falling all the
way to the Raiders. I'm sensing as we get closer
to the draft, a lot more of the people in
your neck of the woods, the draft knicks are projecting
Neighbors to slip that that Dounza maybe goes ahead of Neighbors,
and that maybe Neighbors isn't as big of like a
top five to six lock as as we thought maybe

(01:00:33):
a week or two ago. Like where is is that
coming from info? Just your film tape? Like what's going
on there?

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
So I think.

Speaker 8 (01:00:43):
All I know is I've been doing this long enough
where that where people think the top ten guys are
not going to end up being the top ten pick.
So just we know that and Neighbors, there's no questions
about Oduns. He is a solid player. He is Mike
Williams for the Chargers. For me, he's he's really just
a solid player that you know what you're gonna get
with Neighbors, I'm not sure, And he's so much like Obj.

(01:01:06):
He's so much like him and Obj went twelfth and
and those are the kind of things that I just
look for. Hey, hey, if Neighbors does not go top six,
where is this? Could this could be what happens? And
you know, and the other thing is, I'm not going
to project like eight trades or anything, but if he
starts falling down, obviously somebody might get in the mix
there too for him.

Speaker 6 (01:01:27):
But you projected a lot though it was spicy, and
you always bought, like what the specific one is. You
had the Colts trading up for Bowers. Yeah, and then
you give the exact trade that it would be. It
would be Bowers at a third in exchange for fifteenth.
Overall a second and a fourth. That's a lot for
a tight end. But well, fighting for the Colts. Yeah,
you know, he's more than a tight end. I I

(01:01:47):
think he's the best player in this draft, regardless of position.
And I won't be shot. I honestly won't be shocked
at the Charges take him at five or if they
can work out a trade with the Giants for that
once spot to get that. I think he does everything.
I think if you get a guy in the George
Kittle to Travis Kelcey Realm. He's much more than just

(01:02:11):
a tight end.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
I think the Chargers are meeting with him as we
as we speak, are very very soon to Now you
have another trade because I like looking at the two
teams that don't have picks in the first round, the
Panthers and the Browns. The Panthers you think would be
sitting there at we know we need players, but they
trade the pick to the Raiders who take You have
Michael Pennox Junior falling all the way to the thirty
third pick. I think a lot of people feel like

(01:02:32):
there's gonna be this run on quarterbacks. You got the
Broncos the Raiders in your world when they move up,
but like someone's got a fall So, yeah, I get this,
So you think this could this could happen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Pennix goes all the way to round two.

Speaker 8 (01:02:43):
Look last year, a lot of people thought Hendon Hooker
and Will Levis were going to be first round picks
and they were not, and that happens. I mean, would
I be surprised if the Raiders move up into the
thirty second spot in the first round to get him, No,
I wouldn't be surprised at that at all. But the carline,
Caroline does not have enough picks and they need a
lot of players, and they the previous administration kind of

(01:03:06):
left them bereft of draft capital. So they're gonna be
looking for a deal like this and if they can
they can find it, they're gonna take advantage of it.
And so I think this makes a lot of sense.
And look, Michael Pennox lost parts of four seasons at
Indiana to injury. You don't see a guy like that
going in the first round very often. If it was
a one off, that's fine, But you know, I think

(01:03:28):
that's the thing. And with him, and he's really talented.
I mean, he if you put an offensive line around him,
you give him the whatp he's gonna hit him and
he's a very talented thrower. But there's gonna be questions
about his abult's knee and shoulders.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
So there you have a trade, another trade in the
first round. Both teams intrigued me. So you have the
Rams and Chiefs doing business, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
You're you think you think it's very possible that there
that less need goes to his dresser drawer and pulls
out that FM Picks T shirt again and for another
year to continue the streak that dates back to two
thousand and after twenty sixteen will not have a first
round pick. That's interesting to me. So but let's start
first with the Chiefs, who to me, this is the

(01:04:12):
one that as a layman, I still feel like. The
thing I'm really commid about is the Chiefs make a
charge up the board in the first round to get
a wide receiver, especially now with the Rashid Rice situation.
Travis Kelcey another year older, not a lot of depth
in general, you have him moving up to the middle
of the first round.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 8 (01:04:31):
Yeah, I mean I think Xavier Worthy out of Texas
is a perfect fit for them. I know that they
signed Hollywood Brown, but look Worthy is very worthy of.

Speaker 4 (01:04:42):
The nailed it and he's an explosive player who just
stand on your analysis right there, like go blank and
wait for us to change exactly right, exactly right.

Speaker 8 (01:04:50):
No, but look he's He's not just the guy who
ran a fast forty. I mean, that's obviously one of
the strengths. But he can catch the ball in short
areas and make people miss. He can get down the sideline.
I don't think safeties in college understood how fast he
was because they would like get try to get towards
the sideline and then he'd be gone. And I think

(01:05:11):
when you add that to the Chiefs offense, the Chiefs
won two Super Bowls, but like you know, they were
not happy with how things played out on offense, right,
and that's the kind of difference maker that they'll go
up and get the other thing that I if you
guys remember when the Lions went up to get Jameson Williams.
They went from thirty two to twelve to go get him.

(01:05:32):
And if brock Bauers gets into that area, I'm really
curious to see if they would go get him or
if even if they think of Worthy that highly.

Speaker 6 (01:05:42):
That's where like fit is everything, because I do think
Worthy is more dynamic than people are giving credit for
as like a real player, Like he's a much smaller
player than Kadarius Tony, but I think could do some
of the things that they were hoping Kadarius Tony could
have done now that they've totally given up on that.
Like if he lands with the team like the Chiefs,
then you can see him being like quite Zay Flowers,

(01:06:03):
like maybe with more speed, which is like, but if
he ends up on the wrong team and then he
winds up being a bus I think that's an amazing fit.
But I really do have to say I found one
of your picks ridiculous and just questionable.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
With pick two thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:06:20):
With two thirty five, okay, you had the Seahawks taking
tight end McCallen Castles.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Yeah, Chad was drunken reach reach.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
I know.

Speaker 6 (01:06:29):
Right for McCallen Castles to go top to thirty five,
you're gonna get a lot of pushback, I feel, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Look, you gotta take chances with this.

Speaker 8 (01:06:38):
I can't be the same as everybody else who put
Castles at two fifty one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
You know, I have to take some chances.

Speaker 6 (01:06:45):
And it must be a process at the end of
this seven round thing of just.

Speaker 5 (01:06:48):
Yeah, what is happening at the end there you just
kind of like, well, you've seen that probably deep team
information that you're leaning on in the seventh you.

Speaker 8 (01:06:56):
Know, in ted Lasso when he's playing darts against the
mean guy that I can't think of the name of.

Speaker 6 (01:07:01):
No.

Speaker 8 (01:07:02):
Look, you know the play, you get your population of
like three hundred some guys that are in the mix
and you're got tim team needs, you've got workout, you've
watched them for the past three four years, and you
try to make some interesting ads. And at that point
you're like, Okay, what team needs two edgereshers, what team

(01:07:22):
needs two cornerbacks? You know, and so where are these?
And and you just try to get as many guys
and then you look for the off the radar guys
weren't at the combine, Like thirty guys who who weren't
at the combine will probably get picked.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
So you have to take all.

Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
That night iteration circling back that the idea of the
Chiefs getting powers makes so much sense, both because you
think about the two tight ends set there, but also
Kelsey at thirty three of the year or two left.
You got to learn under Kelsey in the building and
then have a locked and loaded potential superstar to replace him.

Speaker 8 (01:07:55):
That there's just a lot of logic there that checks out. Yeah,
I would I would love to see that kind of
huge move.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
And you know, I think.

Speaker 8 (01:08:04):
To stay on top, you can't just do the status quo.
You can't and you have to make big moves. And
they're so good at scouting later in the draft that
they can afford to, you know, take some chances and
and so like again, Xavior Worthy is not out of
the conversation either at like that eleven twelve area. If
you remember John Ross went like ninth, I think, and

(01:08:26):
he was not he was not nearly the prospect.

Speaker 6 (01:08:29):
That it's a great point that you make about everyone
thinks they have the top ten and it becomes very consensusye,
where like there's so much agreement, and then it never.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Happens that way.

Speaker 6 (01:08:39):
Like even guys who are now you look back at
you're like, oh, yeah, Drake London, of course he was
the number eight pick.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
It's like no one had that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:45):
No, absolutely, no one had that, and he was like
a very well known prospect, like but literally no one
had that. And that happens all the time with these
these guys at the top. Fun mock that one comes
out when on Friday, on Friday.

Speaker 5 (01:08:56):
One little note, Bills fans are not going to be
happy at the twenty eighth pick that they don't go
wide receive where they go defensive player edge Marshawn Neeland.

Speaker 8 (01:09:04):
Yeah, and Brandon Bean's already come out and said, look,
we're not reaching for a player, and I mean I
thought of a bunch of different ways of them moving
up to get a guy, but they're not. They move up,
but they only give up like a fourth round pick
or something like that. If somebody falls into the early twenties,
then then maybe they go get them.

Speaker 6 (01:09:20):
Someone to if all the sixth that you had quite
a few receivers falling that far Roman Wilson, right, you
have them taking Roman Wilson, Ricky Pierce ow you had
eighty Mitchell falling quite away as Troy Franklin. And if
you just do the math, yeah, some of these guys
that feel like they have a chance to be in
the top thirty five forty at receiver are absolutely going
to be there at the end of the second round.

Speaker 8 (01:09:38):
Well, and teams and I would drive the editors and saying,
if I projected six second round trades, right, I mean,
so they would go nuts.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
And but that's what happens. There's five or sixth trades.

Speaker 8 (01:09:48):
So a lot of the guys that I have at
the end of the second round, teams will move up
and go get And the Bills are probably one of
those teams that'll move one of their fourth round picks,
move up and get one of the receivers they like,
kind of like Packers did that with Christian a couple
of years ago, and so I would expect that more
than a first round move.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
From them, Chad writer, check them out NFL dot com.
Where can they find you?

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
On?

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Mark X on x.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Twitter, Great Chad Underscore.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
Mark insists that, uh, the owner gets his due. That's
just the Mark thing.

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
And I can't that is completely inaccurate, but well we'll
just let it go. Where okay find you? Great Phoenix
Mellon is like, call him? I would, uh, Chad Underscore
r e U T E R right, yeah, but don't
call him ruder.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Oh, okay, all right, thank you to Chad, Thank you
to Art. Good name day too.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
Yeah, absolutely, Chad, we got an art tomorrow, we get
Daniel Jerrod. Oh, come back for more draft analysis with
Move the Sticks on at n Until then, you know
what you must do.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
Heed the fun

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